Posts by Doug Mason

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VAT 4956 - Comparison Of The Lunar Three Time Intervals For Years 568/7 BCE and 588/7 BCE

by AnnOMaly in

vat 4956 - comparison of the lunar three time intervals for years 568/7 b.c.e.

the online sky view cafe (svc) and the cartes du ciel* (cdc) astronomy programs have been used for these results.. observer's location: babylon, 32 33' n / 44 24' e.. sr = sunrise; ss = sunset; mr = moonrise; ms = moonset.. .

svc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 1.75 to 6.5. average difference 3.5.. cdc's range of difference between its results and that of the text, when a time interval could be taken, is 0.75 to 8.5. average difference 4. .

Doug Mason

Alleymom!

Absolutely brilliant!

Magnificent!

Doug

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Question about 607/587

by drewcoul in

i am not an expert on this issue.

i have read and re-read information about it, but i guess i am somewhat dense when it comes to this topic.. my question is simple: the watchtower suggests that they believe the bible is the unerring word or god.

that it must be believed above anything else.

Doug Mason

The WTS do not start their Seventy Years with the destruction of Jerusalem. That is a distraction. The WTS start the Seventy Years with the exodus of Jews into Egypt, following the murder of Governor Gedaliah. This is the event that they date at 607 BCE.

The WTS completely ignores the fact that the Bible does not say these Jews went into Egypt in the same year that Jerusalem was destroyed. Indeed, it is impossible for all of the events that took place during the period from Jerusalem’s destruction until those Jews went into Egypt to have been completed within 2 months. It is more probable the Jews entered Egypt 4 years after Jerusalem was destroyed, linking that uprising against Gedaliah to Nebuchadnezzar returning and taking more captives from the land during his 23rd year.

While it focuses on the 539 BCE date for the Fall of Babylon, the WTS’s critical date is 537 BCE for the assembling of the first Exiles at the temple site at Jerusalem. There is no Biblical or other information to prove this date is correct. For that reason, scholars provide alternate dates, but no one really knows. It’s a subjective guess.

Likewise with 1914 CE. The WTS makes a lot of noise and fuss about its views on 1914 CE but the critical date for them is 1919 CE when, according to the WTS, God anointed them as his sole voice upon earth, the true representative of God’s kingdom, his government. That, once again, is a purely a subjective opinion.

Doug.

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VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

by VM44 in

starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

Doug Mason

Alleymom,

Looking at the www, I drew up these parameters for Babylon, Iraq (not that I have applied these figures anywhere):

Latitude: 33 degrees, 32 minutes 27 seconds

Longitude: 44 degrees 25 minutes 27 seconds

Elevation: 27 meters

Time Zone: + 3 hours (no daylight savings time)

Doug

8

Question about "The Kingdom"

by TimothyT in

we have just come back from our second visit to the baptist church.

again, it was fabulous.

since being disfellowshipped, i have only wanted two things: a place to be accepted and a place where i can have good upbuilding bible instruction and discussion.

Doug Mason

The topic of The Kingdom of God is of fundamental importance to the NT writers. Jesus spoke more about it than on any other subject. Perhaps a good start is to study Matthew 13, where the kingdom is said to be a person in action - sowing (not reaping), planting good seed, searching, fishing.

The kingdom is dynamic activity, and who is that person doing these things? God.

The Kingdom is past, present and future, because it is the Kingdom of God, it is not the kingdom of humans. The early English meaning of "kingdom" is "kingship", or rulership, which means it is the rulership of and by God. The ekklesia is not the kingdom, but is a product of the kingdom's activity.

You will have much eye-opening enjoyment as you research this topic. I have several challenging books on the subject on my bookshelves.

Doug

13

What is Armageddon For?

by Perry in

armageddon is a military exercise where the nations will be judged in the "valley of decision" for how they treated israel in regard to dividing that land.

it is not to destroy the wicked as the wt teaches.

the wicked are destroyed from the effects of adam in that all die.. i will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Doug Mason

These prophets were talking about their own day, their own time. They were intent on achieving change within their own community.

When the expectations of the first and second century Christians failed and they were being taunted by the Jews, the Christian writers distorted the immediate meaning of Hebrew (OT) Scriptures to make them appear as if they were intended to apply to their murdered leader, Yeshua.

Learn the lesson taught by history: throughout the centuries, people have continually applied such statements to their own times, and they have a score of a big fat zero. Paul thought it was imminent ("we who are still alive", was talking to people about their time). In time to come, you too will wake up.

In answer to your question: Armagedon (Mount of Assembly) is the name of a place (you will know of its importance to Josiah). Armagedon is not the name of any battle. Since there is no such Mount, the person who wrote these words had a symbolism in mind that drew on his Hebrew/Jewish background.

Doug

1

Looking for page 60 of "Belshazzar and Nabonidus"

by Doug Mason in

having read page 61 of "nabonidus and belshazzar" by raymond philip dougherty, i would now like to see page 60. i hope someone is able to help me.. thanks,.

dooug.

Doug Mason

Having read page 61 of "Nabonidus and Belshazzar" by Raymond Philip Dougherty, I would now like to see page 60. I hope someone is able to help me.

Thanks,

Dooug

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

Doug Mason

Hi outsmart,

At the moment, I can only suggest that the dates by Oppolzer and from NASA are not in agreement. I assume you have downloaded their Catalog:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCLE/5MKLE-214173.pdf

where the Introduction provides a narrative on the development of the Canon from Oppolzer's time

When you go to http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LE-0599--0500.html scroll down and select for example, 03460. That then shows the path of the eclipse for -567 July 04 (that is 568 BCE of course), and explains the reason it was predicted but not seen.

Did you have a go at the Javascript tool at:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JLEX/JLEX-AS.html

If so, tell me what your input criteria were (select Baghdad for simplicity sake) and tell me the results you got for say 568 BCE (-567). How do these compare with Oppolzer?

I shall make enquiries. Maybe others can provide some illumination on this?

Always remember that the issue of the dates is only a concern for the WTS. The responsibility for verifying dates is their problem, but every time they remove faith in the accuracy of a secular record, they remove a plank from their foundation.

Doug

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

Doug Mason

VM44,

I suggest that you will get more precise information when you Google for the geographic co-ordinates (and in terms of minutes and seconds), the elevation above sea level, and the time zone.

Doug

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